Re: Protests in wartime

From: 7visions <7visions_at_prodigy.net_at_hypermail.org>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:18:07 -0800

I mostly agree with you, David. Quite well written.

When I criticized the protests ( which I was taking part in late Feb.) I
only meant to say that I thought that their focus was simplistic and one
sided, and that many of them were doing it because it was "the thing to do"

Also, I was not sure just what their goal is in any practical sense. For the
Coalition to pull out right now and say "Never Mind" would look ridiculous,
and would likely lead to an instant slaughter of many Iraqis, in particular
the Shiites and the Kurds.

But I do believe that dissent can in fact be the highest form of patriotism.

I am not sure about the "people with funny last names" bit. The sad fact is
that most of the suspected al-Queda sympathizers are young Moslem men. But
certainly all U.S citizens are entitled to due process. As for captured
al-Queda fighters, I do believe that they are entitled to Geneva Convention
protections. The letter of international law may not say so, but a double
standard has arisen on our part in light of the understandable U.S
objections to the reprehensible treatment of POW's by Iraq.

As for the " I Support the Troops" line being bandied about, it has always
been a bit of a cliche. This men and women have trained for a long time to
be where they are. If you say, "I Support the Troops, but I am against what
they are doing", just what are you actually saying? ..." I think you are
nice people, but I don't like soldiers". ?

I don't believe that protests prolong the war either. And I certainly
support the right of protest. But although the troops have more pressing
concerns, to put it mildly, it has to have a negative affect on their
morale.

Lenny
----- Original Message -----
>From
> It is a democracy and it is important that voices of dissent be
> heard. I do not think it is contradictory to admire, respect and
> support our troops, while at the same time letting the government
> know that we don't like its actions -- and to keep pressure on it to
> make things as transparent as possible.
>
> If we fall into line behind our government simply because we are at
> war, it becomes more likely that a government (assuming it is
> inclined to do so, and this one certainly seems to be) will seek to
> maintain a war footing to obfuscate, restrict civil liberties as they
> wish, and stifle dissent. The government has in various ways
> maintained that we are at war since 9/11, in ways at which any self-
> respecting civil libertarian should cringe (but hey, they're only
> detaining and deprving the rights of people with funny last names, so
> why shoud we care?).
>
> Are some of the protests over-the-top, paranoid and ridiculous? Yes,
> but that doesn't mean they shouldn't happen (though they should be
> peaceful). I also question where there is evidence of
> dissent "lengthening a conflict". There have been significant
> protests against pretty much every war we've been in except WWII, and
> in most of those cases, excepting Vietnam, these protests had little
> effect on the battlefield, and usually not much effect on government
> policy. The Vietnam experience has made us hyper-sensitive to the
> effect of protests on our troops -- but I think most protesters have
> learned that lesson, and support the troops (or at least respect
> their sacrifices and wish them no ill), but want the government to
> alter its actions in one way or the other.
>
> Personally, now that the war has started, I just want it over as soon
> as possible with as few people killed on either side as possible. But
> I don't think it's unAmerican to go out and protest the war (although
> some protesters are virulently anti-American). I don't think it's
> unAmerican to call protesters idiots, etc. I do think it's anti-
> American to prevent protests or to say that protesters are unAmerican
> because they are protesting.
>
> - David
>
>
> --- In OliveStarlightOrchestra_at_yahoogroups.com, "Mikal" <mikalm_at_i...>
> wrote:
> > (snip of Dean's stuff)
> >
> > Well put, O Ectomorphic One.
> >
> > My own position on the war? I was against it until 1700 hours PST
> last
> > Thursday. PEACEFUL protests, letter-writing, lobbying, etc. are
> fine until
> > an actual war begins. Once the shooting starts, dissent tends to
> lengthen a
> > conflict, demoralize one's troops, encourage the enemy, and create
> trouble
> > on the home front. If standing behind the legitimately elected,
> > Constitutional government of my country during a huge military
> commitment
> > makes me a reactionary, I'll happily accept that label.
> >
> > And if I was excessive and callous re Rachel Corrie, so be it. I
> am sick
> > and tired of spoiled brats with absolutely no common sense, personal
> > responsibility, or awareness of consequences, using their juvenile
> idealism
> > as an excuse to empower murderers and create chaos. I just hope
> that
> > incident discourages similarly inclined morons from supporting
> > homicide-bombing lunatics, or trying to become human speedbumps.
> >
> > --Mr. Right-Wing, Who WILL Get What He Deserves
>
>
>
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Received on 2003-04-03 01:18:56

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