> Okay, so I rambled a little bit in my last message. Sorry.
It was a fine entry, John.
> I was pointing out that young people can get very idealistic, and also
> recommending that people travel more. That's all, really. :-)
>
> IMHO, there is too much arrogance and ignorance in the United States.
> Since Americans can actually afford to visit other nations, they
> should do so, if they can. Aren't we lucky that we can do this?
Yes. Of course, it's worth noting that a lot of the places we'd want
to go are yet one more ocean removed from us--there's yet one more continent
/ocean in between us and Europe, or the Middle East.
Also, this country is so big and rich and varied that there's a lot to
see right here, if pleasure is part of the travel motivation.
> Regarding Ms. Corrie... I am a member of a group which is dedicated to
> rebuilding homes in Palestine. It was founded by Israelis and
> Palestinians who abhor all the violence and want everyone to get
> along. It is great to see people getting together to help each other
> like this. I have attended a few times myself. I noticed they had
> volunteer groups which go to Palestine to rebuild apartments, a lot of
> young people are involved, mostly Americans. It's hard work - long
> hours of construction in the desert sun. I wonder if Rachel Corrie
> started out doing something like this?
If she had, she wouldn't have needed to get so destructive, with the burning
of the American flag and so forth. She would have felt like she was living
a purposeful life. So I rather doubt it.
FWIW, there are a handful of stories about people going to Iraq to act as
human
shields, and finding out that things aren't as they seem. This is from an
international
photographer who went out to act as a shield and realized things are a good
deal
more complicated than he'd thought:
We on the bus felt that we were sympathetic to the views of the Iraqi
civilians, even though
we didn't actually know any. The group was less interested in standing up
for their rights
than protesting against the US and UK governments.
I was shocked when I first met a pro-war Iraqi in Baghdad - a taxi driver
taking me back
to my hotel late at night. I explained that I was American and said, as we
shields always
did, "Bush bad, war bad, Iraq good". He looked at me with an expression of
incredulity.
As he realised I was serious, he slowed down and started to speak in broken
English
about the evils of Saddam's regime. Until then I had only heard the
President spoken
of with respect, but now this guy was telling me how all of Iraq's oil money
went into
Saddam's pocket and that if you opposed him politically he would kill your
whole family.
It scared the hell out of me. First I was thinking that maybe it was the
secret police trying
to trick me but later I got the impression that he wanted me to help him
escape. I felt so
bad. I told him: "Listen, I am just a schmuck from the United States, I am
not with the UN,
I'm not with the CIA - I just can't help you."
Of course I had read reports that Iraqis hated Saddam Hussein, but this was
the real thing.
Someone had explained it to me face to face. I told a few journalists who I
knew. They said
that this sort of thing often happened - spontaneous, emotional, and
secretive outbursts
imploring visitors to free them from Saddam's tyrannical Iraq.
I became increasingly concerned about the way the Iraqi regime was
restricting the movement
of the shields, so a few days later I left Baghdad for Jordan by taxi with
five others. Once over
the border we felt comfortable enough to ask our driver what he felt about
the regime and the
threat of an aerial bombardment.
"Don't you listen to Powell on Voice of America radio?" he said. "Of course
the Americans don't
want to bomb civilians. They want to bomb government and Saddam's palaces.
We want America
to bomb Saddam."
We just sat, listening, our mouths open wide. Jake, one of the others, just
kept saying, "Oh my
God" as the driver described the horrors of the regime. Jake was so shocked
at how naive he had
been. We all were. It hadn't occurred to anyone that the Iraqis might
actually be pro-war.
The driver's most emphatic statement was: "All Iraqi people want this war."
He seemed convinced
that civilian casualties would be small; he had such enormous faith in the
American war machine to
follow through on its promises. Certainly more faith than any of us had.
Perhaps the most crushing thing we learned was that most ordinary Iraqis
thought Saddam Hussein
had paid us to come to protest in Iraq. Although we explained that this was
categorically not the case,
I don't think he believed us. Later he asked me: "Really, how much did
Saddam pay you to come?"
And, in a UPI story written from just over the border in Jordan, a band of
US and Japanese
make it across the border with footage shot without the presence of Iraqi
minders and smuggled
across:
Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the
East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to
reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would
commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see
their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny.
They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had
not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their
tales of slow torture and killing made me ill . . ."
I edited the last part of that last sentence out as a public service.
--J
>
>
> --- In OliveStarlightOrchestra_at_yahoogroups.com, "7visions"
> <7visions_at_p...> wrote:
>> John, your near-essay on affluent idealistic young people sounds like a
>> description of ( here he goes again) my Malibu kids, many of whom are
>> protesting the war right now.
>>
>> And I could not agree with you more that a trip to the developing
> world is
>> great for the young and for anyone...In fact, I seem to sometimes be the
>> last of the JFK Liberals , although, Clinton echoed this theme...I
> am a very
>> strong supporter of the Peace Corps, Americorps and all the
> rest...( One of
>> my ex-students is doing a stint with Americorps right now)
>>
>> In fact, some months back, ( you remember the date probably :) ) I
> publicly
>> disagreed with Mike on the subject of community service. It is a
> requirement
>> at my school, and I strongly support it. It is good for them...it
> broadens
>> their horizon. As much as I love my teen demons, they can be a bit
> spoiled
>> no surprise there) .
>>
>> But nothing in your description of your friend in Africa, or any of the
>> other young idealists that we have all known and been ( ESPECIALLY
>> Mike....Did you ever meet Blackbird Willow???? She is the EPITOME of
> that
>> type, and Mike has always been supportive of her) can represent any
> support
>> for the likes of Rachel Corrie or John Walker Lindh.
>>
>> They crossed the line into anger and violence, to the point of
> near-murder.
>> They, in fact, create a backlash that goes against the gentle spirits of
>> such young idealists.
>>
>> Without realizing it, you are actually making the mistake that many
>> conservatives make. That anyone who goes against the "American Way"
> is the
>> same. No difference between the peaceful gentle pacifist Deadheads
> and the
>> frothing at the mouth violent Leftists?
>>
>> Look back at the history of the 60's. The Right tried to make the
> case that
>> the apotheosis of the Hippie movement was... Charles Manson.
>>
>> No, I share the hopes and dreams of the gentle young idealists.
> Sometimes
>> even their tactics. And if I may say, I think Mike does too.
>>
>> And it is precisely because I do that I reject the hate and anger of the
>> Corries and Lindhs. The fate of neither one of them was a surprise.
>>
>> L
>>
>>
>>> Yes, you were number "666", you beast.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Allow me to respond to what you have said...
>>>
>>>>> I think there is a similarity between Rachel Corrie and John
> Walker
>>>>> Lindh: Both were young people from affluent backgrounds,
>>>>
>>>> Yup. Only rich kids can afford to play at being oppressed.
>>>
>>> Absolutely! These kids (or "adults", as you pointedly called them
>>> later in your message) came from a level of comfort and idleness, and
>>> did not have to worry about getting a boring job like so many other
>>> folks. They wanted to 'fix the world', and their parents probably were
>>> proud of their enthiusiasm and gave them the money to go travel.
>>>
>>> Let's face it: Most people, idealistic or not, do not get such
>>> opportunities. The option for them is to join the Peace Corps, which
>>> would not be acceptable to the Corries and Lindhs because they expect
>>> you to WORK. ;-)
>>>
>>> I don't want to mention any names, but I know a person who had joined
>>> the Peace Corps and had gone to Kenya for more than 10 years. He left
>>> the USA with the knowledge that the USA and capitalism is bad, and
>>> that the legacy of the Western World left a terrible wound in the
>>> 'African Psyche'. He was a hard worker, and was going to help any way
>>> he could!
>>>
>>> He married a Kenyan woman, and now lives near LA. He has told me a lot
>>> about his experiences. The corruption and pettiness was more than he
>>> could bear. His anger about it is palpable. They could not even
>>> install a pipe to get clean water to a village: After paying all the
>>> outrageous bribes, any efforts were always upset and derailed by
>>> neighboring villages. People were stopping other people from getting
>>> ahead, if necessary by death and destruction. The end of it all is
>>> that nobody is ahead.
>>>
>>> These are hard times, Mike, but I still think that we need not be so
>>> harsh on youthful idealism. A trip to the Third World often does
>>> wonders to put things into perpective, by the way. I have always
>>> recommended that more people travel...
>>>
>>> When I was younger after graduating UCLA I went on my own to the USSR.
>>> The Soviet Tourist Agency had package deals, and visitors like myself
>>> had friendly tourist guides (in Iraq, they are called "minders", I
>>> think). I was easily able to give these folks the slip and I went out
>>> on my own, using their extensive subway system. An obvious foreigner,
>>> I met people and was invited back to their homes. (This was completely
>>> safe! Sadly, I also accepted similar invitations in North Africa, and
>>> am lucky now to still be alive...) I saw the standard of living in the
>>> USSR: It was comparable to a USA family on welfare. Maybe even not as
>>> good as. At that time, there was also no freedom of speech like we
>>> have here, though by then Gorbachev was already working on it.
>>>
>>> Later after leaving the USSR I ended up in Britain and visited
>>> relatives. Some of them are quite left wing... correction, ALL of them
>>> are left wing! They wanted my impressions of the USSR, and I told
>>> them. No, no, they disagreed. They insisted that the standard of
>>> living in the USSR was high. High? Compared to what? Pakistan, maybe.
>>> They also concluded that I had not seen the 'Real USSR', or something
>>> like that. All of these opinions from people who had never been more
>>> than 100 miles in any direction! Never even been to France.
>>>
>>> Anyway, my point is that these folks had their idealism, their
>>> opinions, but lacked any resources to travel and see the world. So,
>>> they are more likely to be stuck that way.
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>
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Received on 2003-03-31 11:17:51