There's a superb FAQ online which addresses these points at:
http://www.rickross.com/faq.html
> I have no love for "cults". But it is sometimes a sticky wicket to define
> just what a "cult" is.
>
> There have been many times that so-called Cult Leaders have made the
> plausible claim that the major religions are simply more successful
"cults".
>
> A lot of these groups are started by creative brilliant insightful people.
> Who unfortunately do not care very much about other human beings. A lot of
> gifted people can also be.... assholes.
>
> But, one should still be very careful about branding someone as mentally
> suspect because they choose to join an "out of the mainstream" spiritual
> path.
>
> By the way, what is the name of that group that looks the other way when
> prepubescent kids are molested by many of the church's powerful ????? :)
>
> Lenny
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tschibasch <tschibasch_at_yahoo.com>
> To: <OliveStarlightOrchestra_at_yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 10:48 AM
> Subject: [OliveStarlightOrchestra] Re: New database: horror films
>
>
> > I was at this event Dean menioned, in early 1981. I ended up taking
> > the EST training. I have no regrets about it.
> >
> > Yes, they are very pushy and try to make you take the training. And
> > they claimed that if you said "NO" to them, they would lay off. The
> > reason they would persist is that most folks don't say this. Rather,
> > most people said "I don't think so", or "Not right now". These of
> > course can be shot down, and you can be pushed into taking it. I think
> > if you just say "NO" and don't qualify it, they will lay off.
> >
> > Be firm!
> >
> > Okay, so since I took the training, I will answer two questions.
> >
> > Question #1: Was it brainwashing?
> >
> > Answer: It had that feel to it. They presented a picture of the world.
> > Some of it made sense, and some of it didn't. People argued with them.
> > It was interesting. Sometimes wretchedly boring. We got there at 8AM
> > and left at midnight. There were two breaks for meals and three for
> > bathrooms. Though they were not mean, they did not let us take
> > bathroom breaks during the presentation. There were no wall clocks,
> > and we could not wear watches!
> >
> > I did not always like the presentation, but I agreed with many of the
> > points they made. And I think it was in many ways less stupid than the
> > religious stuff I was raised with when I was growing up. I was not
> > allowed to take bathroom breaks when I was in church either!
> >
> >
> > Question #2: Would I be the same person today if I had not taken EST?
> >
> > Answer: Maybe. I don't know. One point that EST made clear to me that
> > I never got told at home was that we are responsible for our actions.
> > So if your life is a mess, the fault is yours. This sounds pretty
> > basic, but there are many folks out there that have screwed up lives
> > and blame everyone else (parents, government, etc).
> >
> > In the end, I appreciate that I took EST since at least I know what it
> > was like. If I had not, I would be wondering if I had missed something.
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> > --- In OliveStarlightOrchestra_at_yahoogroups.com, "Hiram Gonash"
> > <okfreddy_at_h...> wrote:
> > > And my interest in cults started about the time...ummm...when some
> > > friends tried to get me (and Keith and Susan and Jennifer) to take
> > > est.
> > >
> > > Fond memories of going to the Graduation/Intro lecture and not being
> > > allowed to leave without (a) either signing up for the course or (b)
> > > facing a merciless barrage of antagonism if you chose not to sign up
> > > for the course.
> > >
> > > I chose (a) but stated I didn't have any money, credit cards, or a
> > > checkbook with me. They provided me a blank check! All I had to do was
> > > fill in the bank number when I got home. Such foresight! I escaped the
> > > lecture relatively unscathed, went home, and - ooops - never filled
> > > out the check. A week later I got a call from est asking for the money
> > > and ended up talking to the person for two hours (seriously) on why I
> > > should take est. It boiled down to me needing to get "it". I replied
> > > that I already had "it". They countered with I needed to make sure it
> > > was the right "it". I parried and counterthrusted with "No, YOU need
> > > to make sure you have the right 'it' so you need to take MY seminar
> > > for $100. What a deal!" And that ended that.
> > >
> > > Keith, on the other hand, chose (b) and found himself literally
> > > surrounded by a bunch of est goons who simply wouldn't take his "No!"
> > > for an answer. Very non-estian actions for those folks. I still don't
> > > know how he got out of it without bloodshed.
> > >
> > > And I remember a Samohite named Glen at the Graduation. He wanted to
> > > be a policeman...
> > >
> > > Definitely bad times at Ridgemont High, though I think I gained a
> > > girlfriend at the time out of the situtation. Hmmm.
> > >
> > > -H.G.
> > >
> > > --- In OliveStarlightOrchestra_at_yahoogroups.com, "Michael Marinacci"
> > > <mikalm_at_i...> wrote:
> > > > > Wow. Brings back memories.
> > > > > Hmmm... are most Olives also est'ified?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not I, O Pallid One.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, my fascination with cults and brainwashing probably
> > > started with
> > > > the rise of est and the more authoritarian elements of the "Human
> > > Potential
> > > > Movement" during my Seventies teenhood. The phenomenon of wealthy,
> > > > well-educated hipsters -- people who would have run screaming from
> > > anything
> > > > resembling traditional Judeo-Christian spirituality -- subjecting
> > > themselves
> > > > to far more oppressive, mind- and soul-raping treatment at the hands
> > > of
> > > > various self-appointed gurus, is a phenomenon that still puzzles me.
> > > >
> > > > I guess everybody's got to believe something. Me, I believe I'll
> > > have
> > > > another beer! :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Received on 2004-07-23 16:55:05