I definitely agree that one of those men was "a shallow empty suit
that happens to have been born into an influential family." (Lenny, it
should be "who happens to have been born . . . .")
Kerry was certainly more comfortable, but a lot of potential swing
voters were still confused by his positions, which either
1) didn't make sense, and/or
2) were still unclear.
Bush was irritated and showed it, and I do wish he were consistently
fluent in the English language, but I don't think he lost. And I'd be
interested to see the effects on the polls: the last one I saw was only
a national poll (those aren't all that helpful), and had Bush and Kerry
each increasing their support by 1%, which is within the margin of
error anyway. It appears that each man harvested the "low-hanging
fruit" among those who were still officially undecided but leaning
heavily one way or another.
And *four references* to his service in Vietnam? When will the man
learn he doesn't help himself with that crap?
No one scored a knockout punch.
--J
On Oct 2, 2004, at 1:01 AM, 7visions wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday night John Kerry not only hit the ball out of the park,
> the ball hit George Bush in the face, and off of his feet.
>
> Kerry won on style AND substance
>
> He was poised, firm, knowledgeable, yet polite. He did not go off on
> long-winded pedantic tangents. He never once went over his time.
>
> In one evening Kerry seemed to undo many of his self-inflicted wounds
> of the last two months. He even went low-key on his combat past, which
> even I think that he was overdoing, (mentioning the "war that he was
> in" rather than saying "Vietnam" again). He was artful and clever in
> other places as well...He referred to the fact that we may have messed
> up capturing Bin Laden in Tora Bora by "outsourcing" the job to
> untrustworthy Afghan warlords...a devastating use of a potent word. He
> also managed to bring up the near-forgotten Bush positions on the
> environment and stem cells, and it fit right in.
>
> Even if you are a supporter of George Bush, was there ever a clearer
> indication of the man's limits as seen on Thursday night? Take him
> away from his handlers, or away from his hand-picked acolytes that he
> invites to his campaign events, and what have you got?
>
> A shallow empty suit that happens to have been born into an
> influential family. That is all he is, and all he ever will be.
>
> It is more than he is not a "good debater". What was on display
> Thursday night was something far more disturbing. Bush actually looked
> peeved that he was being criticized. I think that I even heard him
> sigh ( a la Al Gore). Do any of you remember the part where Kerry
> corrected Bush, reminding him that it was Osama Bin Laden that
> attacked us on Sep 11, and Bush said "I KNOW that Osama Bin Laden
> attacked us...I KNOW that"... I swear he sounded like a petulant
> middle school boy.
>
> For all of his Aw shucks image, there is a deep arrogance about the
> man. And it is rare to see arrogance that is not matched by intellect,
> but Bush pulls it off.
>
> Forgive me for getting so personal about the man. But I believe that
> George W. Bush is an insult to all intelligent conservatives.
>
> Below is a piece that says it better than I can... Forgive the double
> posts to those who may have already received this, ( including the
> sender :) )
>
> Lenny
>
>
> Faith vs. reason
> Kerry gains the upper hand in a debate as significant for its
> substance as for what it revealed about Bush.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> By Sidney Blumenthal
>
>
>
>
> Oct. 1, 2004 | After months of flawless execution in a
> well-orchestrated campaign, President Bush had to stand alone in an
> unpredictable debate. He had traveled the country, appearing before
> adoring preselected crowds; delivered a carefully crafted acceptance
> speech at his convention; and approved tens of millions of dollars in
> TV attack commercials to belittle his opponent. His much-touted
> charisma was a reflection of the anxiety and wishful thinking of the
> people since Sept. 11. In the lead, Bush believed he had only to
> assert his superiority to end the contest once and for all.
>
> But onstage the incumbent president ran out of programmed talking
> points. Unable to explain the logic for his policies, or think on his
> feet, he was thrown back on the raw elements of his personality and
> leadership, and he revealed even more profound issues than the
> policies being debated.
>
>
> Every time he was confronted with ambivalence, his impulse was to
> sweep it aside. He claimed he must be followed because he is the
> leader. Fate in the form of Sept. 11 had placed authority in his hands
> as a man of destiny.
>
> Skepticism, pragmatism and empiricism are his enemies. Absolute faith
> prevails over open-ended reason, subjectivity over fact. Those who do
> not pray at his altar of certainty are betrayers of the faith, not to
> mention the troops. Belief in belief is the ultimate sacrament of his
> political legitimacy.
>
> In the frame of the split TV screen, Bush's face was a transparent
> mirror of his emotions. His grimaces exposed his irritation,
> frustration and anger at being challenged. Lacking intellectual
> stamina and repeating his talking points as though on a feedback loop,
> he tried to close argument by blind assertion. With no one
> interrupting him, he protested, "Let me finish" -- a phrase he
> occasionally deploys to great effect before the cowed White House
> press corps.
>
> John Kerry was set up beforehand as Bush's ideal foil: long-winded,
> dour and dull. But the Kerry who showed up was crisp, nimble and
> formidable. His thrusts brought out Bush's rigidity and stubbornness.
> The more Bush pleaded the case of his own decisiveness, the more he
> appeared reactive. Time and again, as he attempted to halt Kerry, he
> accused him of "mixed signals" and "mixed messages" and
> "inconsistency." For Bush, certainty equals strength. His facial
> expressions exposed his exasperation at having to hear an opposing
> view. As he accused Kerry of being contradictory, it was obvious that
> he was peeved at being contradicted.
>
> Kerry responded with a devastating deconstruction of Bush's
> epistemology. Nothing like this critique of pure reason has ever been
> heard in a presidential debate. "It's one thing to be certain, but you
> can be certain and be wrong," said Kerry. "It's another to be certain
> and be right, or to be certain and be moving in the right direction,
> or be certain about a principle and then learn new facts and take
> those new facts and put them to use in order to change and get your
> policy right. What I worry about with the president is that he's not
> acknowledging what's on the ground, he's not acknowledging the
> realities of North Korea, he's not acknowledging the truth of the
> science of stem cell research or of global warming and other issues.
> And certainty sometimes can get you in trouble."
>
> Kerry's analysis of Bush's "colossal error of judgment" in Iraq was
> systematic, factual and historical. The coup de grâce was his citation
> of the president's father's actions in the Gulf War. "You know," said
> Kerry, "the president's father did not go into Iraq, into Baghdad,
> beyond Basra. And the reason he didn't is, he said -- he wrote in his
> book -- because there was no viable exit strategy. And he said our
> troops would be occupiers in a bitterly hostile land. That's exactly
> where we find ourselves today." With that, Kerry touched on Bush's
> most ambivalent relationship, the father he recently called "the wrong
> father," whom he compared with the "higher Father."
>
> In response, Bush simply insisted on his authority. "I just know how
> this world works, and that in the councils of government, there must
> be certainty from the U.S. president." He reverted to his claim that
> Sept. 11 justified the invasion of Iraq because "the enemy" -- meaning
> Saddam Hussein -- "attacked us." A stunned but swift-footed Kerry
> observed: "The president just said something extraordinarily revealing
> and frankly very important in this debate. In answer to your question
> about Iraq and sending people into Iraq, he just said, 'The enemy
> attacked us.' Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden
> attacked us." In his effort to banish all doubt, Bush had retreated
> into a substitute reality, a delusional version of Iraq, ultimately
> faith based.
>
> Bush's attack lines against Kerry were not descriptive of the
> surprising man standing opposite him. They had been effective last
> week, but were suddenly shopworn. But Bush couldn't adjust amid the
> rapidly moving event. The greater his frustration in the debate, the
> more frequently he spoke of his difficulties in coping with "my job."
> "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work," he said. Ten
> times he spoke of his "hard work": listening to intelligence
> briefings, training Iraqi troops, talking to allies, having to comfort
> a bereaved mother whose son was killed in Iraq.
>
> Finally, near the end, Kerry praised Bush for his public service, and
> his wife, and his daughters. "I'm trying to put a leash on them," Bush
> said. That was hard work, too. "Well, I don't know," replied Kerry,
> who also has daughters. "I've learned not to do that, Mr. President."
> Even in the banter about parental control, Kerry gained the upper
> hand.
>
> But Bush lost more than control in the first debate. He lost the plot.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Received on 2004-10-02 01:15:14